A simple question for people using bots... : FFXI General Discussions

First off, I am not here to dis/flame anyone using fishing bots, though I myself would never use one.

I have a question though. Are you people aware of the damage you are causing to the economy? At least if you sell fishes to NPC's, you are aware of the massive amount of gil flowing into the economy?
I have never really had a big problem with botters who fish up moat and sell it on AH, though I think it's slightly annoying that I can't strike up a conversation with a fellow fisherman because he's using a program to fish, and is in fact AFK.

Like I said, I do not with to flame anyone... I just want to have an opinion from you guys. Do you not care about the economy in the long run, do you feel like you don't have enough time to make money ingame etc...

Would be cool to see some serious answers!

[quote="Guest";p="55105"]
First off, I am not here to dis/flame anyone using fishing bots, though I myself would never use one.

I have a question though. Are you people aware of the damage you are causing to the economy? At least if you sell fishes to NPC's, you are aware of the massive amount of gil flowing into the economy?
I have never really had a big problem with botters who fish up moat and sell it on AH, though I think it's slightly annoying that I can't strike up a conversation with a fellow fisherman because he's using a program to fish, and is in fact AFK.

Like I said, I do not with to flame anyone... I just want to have an opinion from you guys. Do you not care about the economy in the long run, do you feel like you don't have enough time to make money ingame etc...

Would be cool to see some serious answers!
[/quote]

From what I've read, some of the people who bot actually use the money to make money in real life.

If you're going to bark about inflation go do it at IGE and similar services. It's after all they who provide one of the major reasons to bot in the first place (and thus the root cause of inflation).
The major problem though is that there ain't enough money sinks which leads to gil pooling up.

I am not barking, just asking a question.

That is a good point though about not having enough gil sinks in the game. The increased tax in the latest update was a response to this, but I am really wondering whether it's enough to counter the gil flowing into the economy.
It would be very interesting to see some kind of chart that showed gil flowing into the economy, compared to gil going out of the economy.

While I despise Gil sellers, I do botfish from time to time. These are the reasons that I do it:

1. I am married and have a 16 month old son
2. I work 50-60hours a week
3. My wife is a full-time college student
4. I don't have endless hours to farm to supply my character with gil.
5. I never AFK botfish

On a side note, even when I'm fishing without using a bot, I HATE talking to other people for the following reasons:
1. You are wasting my valuable time
2. You are costing me gil by reducing my # of casts per hour

Time is money and my time in game is more valuable to me than making a new fishing buddy. I make enough friends in parties that I don't need a fishing buddy that is going to cost me gil everytime I log on to fish.

That's just my 2gils worth!

[quote="moonvball";p="55112"]While I despise Gil sellers, I do botfish from time to time. These are the reasons that I do it:

1. I am married and have a 16 month old son
2. I work 50-60hours a week
3. My wife is a full-time college student
4. I don't have endless hours to farm to supply my character with gil.
5. I never AFK botfish

On a side note, even when I'm fishing without using a bot, I HATE talking to other people for the following reasons:
1. You are wasting my valuable time
2. You are costing me gil by reducing my # of casts per hour

Time is money and my time in game is more valuable to me than making a new fishing buddy. I make enough friends in parties that I don't need a fishing buddy that is going to cost me gil everytime I log on to fish.

That's just my 2gils worth! [/quote]


w00000! well said! Rate up... uh wait, wrong site *Blush*... While we are on the subject of simple questions, Does the script sound a noise whenever you get a tell from someone. what about that crappy, sneeky GM pop up window thing?

Just courious, I'm playing Legacy of Kain - Soul Reaver whilst fishin, and didn't want to get caught with my hook in the water (so to speak)

moonvball, thats the type of post I was looking for, good points.

Though I do find it a little bit scary that you absolutely avoid talking to people so you can make more gil. @_@ But to each his own.

I guess I should spill my guts on why I don't fishbot also.

It may sound cheesy, but I really like getting the feeling of satisfaction when I can afford a new cool armor/weapon/whatever.
This is kinda why I have stuck with FFXI instead of WoW. In WoW money-making seem so easy that I don't think I'd get any satisfaction in playing it.
I guess that is what bugs me about fishbotters sometime. I know a few people who have botted for quite a long time, and it feels so cheap when they are bragging/showing off their gear to other people you know?

But also, I want to ask again... What do people who use fishing bots feel about the economy in-game?

I thought people would flame the hell out of me to be honest, so this is a pleasant surprise so far! XD Let's try and keep it civil!

Seriously, if you're in the play 2+ hours a day but not 6+ hours a day crowd stay with FFXI. From playing wow for a total of about 20 days (aka 20*24 hours) I've come to the conclusion that this game caters only to the softcore and hardcore, us in between (who don't want to raid and don't want to solo) have essentially no content once we hit 60. (You can only do a dungeon so many times before is sucks.)
I've notices a crapload of people simply stop logging on once they reach their 50ies, it's simply not fun playing Elwynn forest 12.0 (aka Un'Goro at that level) again. Cause face it, the quests are as exciting at level 50 as they are at level 5, the game is trivial, for several jobs even elites don't mean risk.
I can prolly mention 20+ quests in FFXI which beat the crap out of every single quest I've done in WoW. Best one I've seen so far is Missing Diplomat and that Queen of the Earth quest (although the ending sucked).

Heck, today I ran up to a level 54 Elite giant that hit for 300-400 dmg, well as a 52 shadow priest he wasn't that hard, when the battle was done I still had 20% mp and didn't go below 70% hp a single time. Ridiculous.

I'm back to FFXI, did a promyvion run yesterday to help a friend, brought some other friends. We talked about all kinds of crap, promyvion was fun, I wiped us once since I had forgotten about aggro ranges in prom then we spanked the boss like professionals. In one day of FFXI I had more fun than I can remember having a all of WoW.

Oh yeah, how many friends have you made in WoW? How many did you make in EQ/FFXI/other mmorpg? Uhuh, thought so. The reason I play a MMORPG is to interact with others while playing a game, not solo online for a monthly cost. (Cause face it, most of WoW is soloing and if you go with grouping most often you're just plain penalized for it except for some blue items avery couple of levels, which you don't need anyway.)


And about not wanting to be disturbed while fishing. Most people who fish a lot do something else like watching tv, doing homework, reading a book or well, any task that is easy to do while fishing. Sure, sometimes we don't and then we spam tells / linkshell but like, if you fish a lot you learn to use the time for something else around skill level 15.

[quote="Guest";p="55115"]
moonvball, thats the type of post I was looking for, good points.

Though I do find it a little bit scary that you absolutely avoid talking to people so you can make more gil. @_@ But to each his own.

I guess I should spill my guts on why I don't fishbot also.

It may sound cheesy, but I really like getting the feeling of satisfaction when I can afford a new cool armor/weapon/whatever.
This is kinda why I have stuck with FFXI instead of WoW. In WoW money-making seem so easy that I don't think I'd get any satisfaction in playing it.
I guess that is what bugs me about fishbotters sometime. I know a few people who have botted for quite a long time, and it feels so cheap when they are bragging/showing off their gear to other people you know?

But also, I want to ask again... What do people who use fishing bots feel about the economy in-game?

I thought people would flame the hell out of me to be honest, so this is a pleasant surprise so far! XD Let's try and keep it civil!
[/quote]

It has more to do with maximizing my gil when I fish so support my character than simply making money. I am far from the multi-millionaire bots that run for days on end. I fish to support my leveling and gear and since I don't have endless hours to farm or craft, I find fishing is a nice steady income that keeps my character in *good* gear but not the best. Sure if I botted more I would probably have the best gear, but like you said, I'd like to earn the *best* gear when I get a chance. On a side note, there are many a high level that don't have *uber* gear and 50million in the bank.

As for the economy: I personally think alot of the economy gets hosed up by undercutting crafters which in turn makes ppl want to do something else for gil. For relatively easy gil, moat carping is the most steady income for low fishers in the game. It rarely gets undercut and at the same time I've never seen stacks go through the roof either. There have been times when the supply and demand is so screwed up by crafters that one night you can buy something for 150k and 3 days later it skyrockets to 400k+, then the crafters run out and craft like crazy and boom the price plummets to 120k. Most crafters are too damn impatient to wait for something to sell so they just start cutting prices when they could wait a day or 2 for something to sell and keep the AH prices more static but that's what a supply and demand economy will do.

I agree with asl18fs on WoW. I really thought it was going to be great but was greatly disappointed with the "Fisher Price" interface and gameplay. WoW was built for the simpleminded MMO player IMHO.

[quote="jizar";p="55480"]
Simply, u will have Cheaters in every game u play, no doubt about it.
FFXI makes hard for low lvls to make gil, so ppl get mad at that and find ways to get revenge...... ex: BOTS.
i rest my case
[/quote]

I disagree with this 100%
I agree with and disagee with Botfishing all together. I think that it is a very long and drawn out process to fish and I kinda agree with the inflation issue. But just as a side note about te low lvl comment. If you are from Windhurst area there are these little things called Crawlers. I don't know about other servers but Silk is selling for 19-20k a stack right now on Bahamut. So alot of the lower lvls are actually makeing a preety penny currently on Bahamut. But the ordeal with bot fishing is. Currently it is not too much of a problem. I agree I do it some but for one and one reason only. I want a Lu' Shang's Fishing Rod and I need Carp ^_^. But on a lighter note all bot fishing will sease to exist with the Updates and this is ok by me. Atleast we will have fun Fishing now.

I disagree with this 100%
I agree with and disagee with Botfishing all together. I think that it is a very long and drawn out process to fish and I kinda agree with the inflation issue. But just as a side note about te low lvl comment. If you are from Windhurst area there are these little things called Crawlers. I don't know about other servers but Silk is selling for 19-20k a stack right now on Bahamut. So alot of the lower lvls are actually makeing a preety penny currently on Bahamut. But the ordeal with bot fishing is. Currently it is not too much of a problem. I agree I do it some but for one and one reason only. I want a Lu' Shang's Fishing Rod and I need Carp ^_^. But on a lighter note all bot fishing will sease to exist with the Updates and this is ok by me. Atleast we will have fun Fishing now.

Haha, apparently you didn't read the rest of the thread, if you think this update is going to stop bot fishing you are sadly mistaken. There really is no way to stop bot fishing just make it more difficult to code for and from what I can see it's not going to be very difficult to code around this change. May take a few weeks but the bot fishers will be back in full force and from what I can tell, fishing stronger than ever. Do some board searches at other sites, new bots are already being worked on.

Oh yeah, if you think this is going to make fishing fun....well, it might make it more interesting but it's now going to take you 5x as long to get your lu shangs rod and prices of moats are going to hit 8k a stack in the AH. As for the skillups, post 50 you are lucky to get .2 skillups in 2-3 hours so now you are going to get .4 in 2-3 hours YIPPEE! Can't wait for the massive change in skillups. haha

Just my 2 gil.

[quote="moonvball";p="55950"]

I disagree with this 100%
I agree with and disagee with Botfishing all together. I think that it is a very long and drawn out process to fish and I kinda agree with the inflation issue. But just as a side note about te low lvl comment. If you are from Windhurst area there are these little things called Crawlers. I don't know about other servers but Silk is selling for 19-20k a stack right now on Bahamut. So alot of the lower lvls are actually makeing a preety penny currently on Bahamut. But the ordeal with bot fishing is. Currently it is not too much of a problem. I agree I do it some but for one and one reason only. I want a Lu' Shang's Fishing Rod and I need Carp ^_^. But on a lighter note all bot fishing will sease to exist with the Updates and this is ok by me. Atleast we will have fun Fishing now.

Haha, apparently you didn't read the rest of the thread, if you think this update is going to stop bot fishing you are sadly mistaken. There really is no way to stop bot fishing just make it more difficult to code for and from what I can see it's not going to be very difficult to code around this change. May take a few weeks but the bot fishers will be back in full force and from what I can tell, fishing stronger than ever. Do some board searches at other sites, new bots are already being worked on.

Oh yeah, if you think this is going to make fishing fun....well, it might make it more interesting but it's now going to take you 5x as long to get your lu shangs rod and prices of moats are going to hit 8k a stack in the AH. As for the skillups, post 50 you are lucky to get .2 skillups in 2-3 hours so now you are going to get .4 in 2-3 hours YIPPEE! Can't wait for the massive change in skillups. haha

Just my 2 gil.
[/quote]

If you have Read the official post from Square you would see that everyone is getting these little things that help people fish (its an actual Job ability). From what I have read from the post bot fishing will almost all together disappear unless someone does go in and use a PROGRAM changeing Bot which as another Side note is illegal by a long shot and SE will find out about these types ^_^ (AC tools does not change the programing but ones that do and changeing the programing of the game all together and are considered hacking and will mean automatic termination from the game). But they have promised fishing will now be a fun experience and not as boreing as it has been being. As far as lvl increaseing... please check your moon phases and that sort of thing. I fished for 3 hours and got 6 lvls... not bad if I say so myself.

Just my 3 gil worth.

(Ps: Moat Carp on Buhamut are 12~15k a stack currently and they are always sold out. So we are already suffering from a dry run and the only way to get the carp is to fish it yourself... and it that requires a little more time and work, then I'm all for it... I refuse to pay 3 Million Gil for that $%^& rod....lol)

(The preceding post was not to flam but a response to the quoted post. It was not meant towards any one person and is just my point of view and the facts I have seen)

[quote="Shuma";p="55968"]If you have Read the official post from Square you would see that everyone is getting these little things that help people fish (its an actual Job ability).[/quote]Oh? That's nowhere in this post:

http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/information/0210.html wrote:-The rod will begin to shake wildly when something takes the bait.
-Countering the movement of the rod will reduce the stamina of your intended catch.
-A catch is best reeled in when its stamina is close to zero, so much more attention is required when compared to the current fishing system.
-In accordance with these changes, fishing skill will rise at twice the rate of the current system.

Sounds pretty much that at worst we'll have to check the screen for where the rod is and what the current stamina of the fish is.
[quote="Shuma";p="55968"]From what I have read from the post bot fishing will almost all together disappear unless someone does go in and use a PROGRAM changeing Bot which as another[/quote]And most people on said forums have no idea how to make bots, much less how to get rid of them. Hello! Wow has an at least equally complxe system and that's easy as hell to bot.
[quote="Shuma";p="55968"]Side note is illegal by a long shot and SE will find out about these types ^_^ (AC tools does not change the programing but ones that do and changeing the programing of the game all together and are considered hacking and will mean automatic termination from the game). [/quote]And your point is? You think XUnleashed with it's capabilities doesn't break the eula already?
[quote="Shuma";p="55968"]But they have promised fishing will now be a fun experience and not as boreing as it has been being.[/quote]Uhuh? And you believe that? You know Blizzard promises WoW is FUN but to be honest it sucks. Now are they lying? Can I sue them?
Trust me, fishing will be boring if you do it too much after the patch too.
[quote="Shuma";p="55968"]As far as lvl increaseing... please check your moon phases and that sort of thing. I fished for 3 hours and got 6 lvls... not bad if I say so myself.[/quote]I'm considered a very experienced fisher on my server (and on several forums) and I can promise you that you'll only get skillups that fast at lower levels. Heck, if you get a ONE level (1.0) skillup in 1 hour at 70+ you'll run around your house screaming with joy.

[quote="Shuma";p="55968"](Ps: Moat Carp on Buhamut are 12~15k a stack currently and they are always sold out. So we are already suffering from a dry run and the only way to get the carp is to fish it yourself... and it that requires a little more time and work, then I'm all for it... I refuse to pay 3 Million Gil for that $%^& rod....lol)[/quote]Sounds like the smart thing to do would be to sell moat carp then buy the rod, not to fish it all up yourself.

Just another note: If this slows down the catch rate per hour (which I think it will), you are going to see prices for fish spike in the AH and in turn the items crafted from them spike. This may have been well thought out (which I doubt, they don't seem to be very bright in what they attempt to fix, i.e. New AH system that made it worse!) by SE to how it will impact botters but I really don't think that they considered the economy. For my ranger the sushi's are already getting high priced and I am expecting to pay double after the new fishing hits which just blows.

Moats on Asura are still going for 4k/stack as of last night but it does sound like it's going to be easier to buy lu shang's instead of questing it after the patch.

One more thing, I have the utmost faith in Admin, Wyvernx, and asl18fs and their coding abilities to believe that they will have a workaround for the "new" fishing sytem within a week to 10 days. Botting will continue and may even get better with the new fish stamina/instinct.

Just my 2 gil worth