taultunleashed logoFFXI Crash after Play Botton Hit (with logs)! : General & Trouble Shooting
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FFXI Crash after Play Botton Hit (with logs)! : General & Trouble Shooting

Posted: July 10th, 2005, 5:38 am
 
joshk6656

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heres my log, crashing as soon as i hit play when the screen turns black.

XUnleashed Version 3.992
What i Have Checked:
Plugins: Triggers, Macros, Scripts, and Servicer

Options Tab: Windowed, Anti-Detection, Auto Update Plugins, Display Logo, Use RandomFileNames, and Ignore Direct Input

Also I have disabled GamePad, and FFXI DOES run perfect without XU attached.
Code:
07/10/05 09:17:37 AM

*****     XUnleashed Trace Log Started:  Sunday, July 10, 2005 09:17:37


07/10/05 09:17:37 AM   Registered XUnleashed Controls...
07/10/05 09:17:37 AM   Registered XUScriptHelper...
07/10/05 09:17:37 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Click Play to begin...
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Updating 3rd Party Plugins and Services...
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Patching Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Retrieving the file:  update
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Patching complete. . .
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   WARNING:  Stealth DLL temporarily dissabled!!!!
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Connecting to XUnleashed...
07/10/05 09:17:40 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Authenticating User...
07/10/05 09:17:41 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Connected. . .
07/10/05 09:17:41 AM   Using Standard Hooking. . .
07/10/05 09:17:41 AM   XUnleashed Client:  Launching. . .
07/10/05 09:17:41 AM   Found Target Process:  pol.exe
07/10/05 09:17:42 AM   Config Option:  Display Logo
07/10/05 09:17:42 AM   Config Option:  Windowed
07/10/05 09:17:42 AM   Initializing COM Objects. . .
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   FOUND:  Direct3DCreate8
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   Starting Services. . .
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE:  XUnleashed Windows Input Service
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   CXUWinInput::Initialize()
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE:  XUnleashed TCP/IP Packet Sniffer
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   Starting the 3rd Party Services...
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Service:  Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   Starting Plugins. . .
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin:  XUnleashed V2 Triggers
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin:  XUnleashed V2 Macros
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin:  XUnleashed V2 Scripts
07/10/05 09:18:31 AM   Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   Force Windowed Mode ON
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   Attempting to lock onto Client. . .
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   Attempting to lock onto Client. . .
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   FOUND:  Direct3D8::CreateDevice()
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:  Keyboard
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   Ignoring DirectInput8 Device:  Keyboard
07/10/05 09:18:32 AM   Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:  Mouse


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 6:12 am
 
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I'll see what I can do.


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 8:25 am
 
joshk6656

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i also wanted to ask about the window title, how can i make it the default title which ffxi uses?


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 11:12 am
 
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I dont understand.

What do you mean window title? I do not change the window title that ffxi assigns.



Also, this is in your log:
07/10/05 09:17:47 AM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:

What devices to you have attached to your computer? Ie besides your keyboard and mouse.


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 12:50 pm
 
joshk6656

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speakers is the only thing that comes to mind. with XU, FFXI has a random window title right now, on one of my PCs its "qurclpp"

another thing that came to mind was my KVM switch, but i unhooked and set up directly into PC and still not working. btw it worked great before update.

also incase this wasnt mentioned, the buttons on the scripts interface do not work as meant to be, i have to click below the button to use it.
for example, i have to click under the start button to start my script.


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 3:38 pm
 
homerj10
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Mine is as well not working at the same spot not sure whats up but FFXI never makes to the game. thanks for any help
here is the log

07/10/05 07:01:04 PM

***** XUnleashed Trace Log Started: Sunday, July 10, 2005 19:01:04


07/10/05 07:01:06 PM Registered XUnleashed Controls...
07/10/05 07:01:08 PM Registered XUScriptHelper...
07/10/05 07:01:08 PM XUnleashed Client: Click Play to begin...
07/10/05 07:01:30 PM XUnleashed Client: Updating 3rd Party Plugins and Services...
07/10/05 07:01:30 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching FFXIUnleashed Map Plugin
07/10/05 07:01:30 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: update
07/10/05 07:01:30 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/10/05 07:01:30 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: FFXINews.txt
07/10/05 07:01:30 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/10/05 07:01:31 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/10/05 07:01:31 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: update
07/10/05 07:01:31 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/10/05 07:01:31 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching complete. . .
07/10/05 07:01:31 PM WARNING: Stealth DLL temporarily dissabled!!!!
07/10/05 07:01:31 PM XUnleashed Client: Connecting to XUnleashed...
07/10/05 07:01:35 PM XUnleashed Client: Authenticating User...
07/10/05 07:01:36 PM XUnleashed Client: Connected. . .
07/10/05 07:01:36 PM Using Alternate Hooking. . .
07/10/05 07:01:38 PM XUnleashed Client: Launching. . .
07/10/05 07:01:40 PM Found Target Process: pol.exe
07/10/05 07:01:40 PM Config Option: Display Logo
07/10/05 07:01:40 PM Config Option: ForceRedraw
07/10/05 07:01:40 PM Initializing COM Objects. . .
07/10/05 07:01:44 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/10/05 07:01:44 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:48 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:48 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:01:48 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: @“
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM FOUND: Direct3DCreate8
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM Starting Services. . .
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE: XUnleashed Windows Input Service
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM CXUWinInput::Initialize()
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE: XUnleashed TCP/IP Packet Sniffer
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM CPacketSniffer::Initialize()
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM Starting the 3rd Party Services...
07/10/05 07:04:36 PM ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Service: Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Starting Plugins. . .
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Plugin: FFXIUnleashed Map Plugin
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Looking for 3rd Party Service for services\FFXIService.Service
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM SERIOUS ERROR: Failed to find a named Control(btnTargetNearestResource)!!!
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Triggers
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Macros
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Scripts
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:04:37 PM Attempting to lock onto Client. . .
07/10/05 07:04:39 PM FOUND: Direct3D8::CreateDevice()
07/10/05 07:04:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Keyboard
07/10/05 07:04:40 PM Ignoring DirectInput8 Device: Keyboard
07/10/05 07:04:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Mouse
07/10/05 07:04:40 PM Attempting to free up all allocated memory.
07/10/05 07:04:40 PM Stopping Plugins. . .
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM WARNING: Stealth DLL temporarily dissabled!!!!
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM XUnleashed Client: Connecting to XUnleashed...
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM XUnleashed Client: Authenticating User...
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM XUnleashed Client: Connected. . .
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM Using Alternate Hooking. . .
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM XUnleashed Client: Launching. . .
07/10/05 07:04:58 PM Found Target Process: pol.exe
07/10/05 07:04:59 PM Config Option: Display Logo
07/10/05 07:04:59 PM Config Option: ForceRedraw
07/10/05 07:04:59 PM Initializing COM Objects. . .
07/10/05 07:05:00 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/10/05 07:05:00 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:05:04 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: Ðà"
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM FOUND: Direct3DCreate8
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Starting Services. . .
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE: XUnleashed Windows Input Service
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM CXUWinInput::Initialize()
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE: XUnleashed TCP/IP Packet Sniffer
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM CPacketSniffer::Initialize()
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Starting the 3rd Party Services...
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Service: Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Starting Plugins. . .
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Plugin: FFXIUnleashed Map Plugin
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Looking for 3rd Party Service for services\FFXIService.Service
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM SERIOUS ERROR: Failed to find a named Control(btnTargetNearestResource)!!!
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Triggers
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Macros
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Scripts
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/10/05 07:06:02 PM Attempting to lock onto Client. . .
07/10/05 07:06:03 PM FOUND: Direct3D8::CreateDevice()
07/10/05 07:06:03 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Keyboard
07/10/05 07:06:03 PM Ignoring DirectInput8 Device: Keyboard
07/10/05 07:06:03 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Mouse
07/10/05 07:06:43 PM XUnleashed Client: Updating 3rd Party Plugins and Services...
07/10/05 07:06:43 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching FFXIUnleashed Map Plugin
07/10/05 07:06:43 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: update
07/10/05 07:07:08 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/10/05 07:07:08 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: update
07/10/05 07:07:08 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/10/05 07:07:08 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching complete. . .
07/10/05 07:07:11 PM XUnleashed Client: Connecting to XUnleashed...
07/10/05 07:07:11 PM XUnleashed Client: Authenticating User...
07/10/05 07:07:12 PM XUnleashed Client: Connected. . .
07/10/05 07:07:12 PM Using Standard Hooking. . .
07/10/05 07:07:12 PM XUnleashed Client: Launching. . .
07/10/05 07:07:12 PM Found Target Process: pol.exe
07/10/05 07:07:13 PM Config Option: Display Logo
07/10/05 07:07:13 PM Config Option: ForceRedraw
07/10/05 07:07:13 PM Initializing COM Objects. . .
07/10/05 07:07:14 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/10/05 07:07:14 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:07:18 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 5:11 pm
 
joshk6656

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you have the same thing as me.

07/10/05 07:01:47 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:


also i noticed
07/10/05 07:18:31 PM SERIOUS ERROR: Failed to find a named Control(btnTargetNearestResource)!!!

which is most likely a problem, i think i saw a thread about this issue, but i dont see a search function on this forums so we shall see what others say.

here is the error report from windows error reporting thingy.

AppName: pol.exe AppVer: 1.15.2.0 ModName: zrsst.dll
ModVer: 3.9.9.2 Offset: 0003af6e


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 6:37 pm
 
Admin

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I am adding some code to handle invalid or unsupported devices.


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 7:16 pm
 
joshk6656

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not trying to rush you or anything but can you give an ETA? thanks for the quick response

another thing i just found is in DirectX Diagnostic Tool, the ONLY DirectInput devices are keyboard and mouse. check screenie below


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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Posted: July 10th, 2005, 10:08 pm
 
Admin

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I am trying to track down what is causing this:

07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/10/05 07:17:40 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: hc


I beleive that is the error.


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Posted: July 11th, 2005, 8:24 pm
 
joshk6656

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let me know if theres anything you need me to do which can make things easier for you, i check back often


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Posted: July 13th, 2005, 9:24 pm
 
joshk6656

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a workaround for this problem for me is changing the launch path to use archbells windower launch.exe. i dont know if this will help you eliminate anything but i thought i woudl let you know, it works if i do this.


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Posted: July 16th, 2005, 12:41 pm
 
homerj10
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Here is another log if it helps as title states still not working.






07/16/05 04:09:26 PM

***** XUnleashed Trace Log Started: Saturday, July 16, 2005 16:09:26


07/16/05 04:09:27 PM Registered XUnleashed Controls...
07/16/05 04:09:28 PM Registered XUScriptHelper...
07/16/05 04:09:28 PM XUnleashed Client: Click Play to begin...
07/16/05 04:09:41 PM XUnleashed Client: Updating 3rd Party Plugins and Services...
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching FFXIUnleashed Map Plugin
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: update
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: FFXINews.txt
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Retrieving the file: update
07/16/05 04:09:42 PM XUnleashed Client: Redirecting to alternate patch server. . .
07/16/05 04:09:43 PM XUnleashed Client: Patching complete. . .
07/16/05 04:09:43 PM XUnleashed Client: Connecting to XUnleashed...
07/16/05 04:09:47 PM XUnleashed Client: Authenticating User...
07/16/05 04:09:47 PM XUnleashed Client: Connected. . .
07/16/05 04:09:47 PM Using Standard Hooking. . .
07/16/05 04:09:47 PM XUnleashed Client: Launching. . .
07/16/05 04:09:49 PM Found Target Process: pol.exe
07/16/05 04:09:49 PM Config Option: Display Logo
07/16/05 04:09:49 PM Config Option: ForceRedraw
07/16/05 04:09:49 PM Initializing COM Objects. . .
07/16/05 04:09:52 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/16/05 04:09:52 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: Cyborg Force Rumble Pad
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: x˜
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device:
07/16/05 04:09:55 PM Forcing DirectInput8 Device to play nice: ˜…*
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM FOUND: Direct3DCreate8
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM Starting Services. . .
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE: XUnleashed Windows Input Service
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM CXUWinInput::Initialize()
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM ------->FOUND A StandardSERVICE: XUnleashed TCP/IP Packet Sniffer
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM CPacketSniffer::Initialize()
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM Starting the 3rd Party Services...
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Service: Wyvern's FFXi Servicer
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM Starting Plugins. . .
07/16/05 04:11:34 PM ------->FOUND A 3rd Party Plugin: FFXIUnleashed Map Plugin
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM Looking for 3rd Party Service for services\FFXIService.Service
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM SERIOUS ERROR: Failed to find a named Control(btnTargetNearestResource)!!!
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Triggers
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Macros
07/16/05 04:11:35 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/16/05 04:11:36 PM ------->FOUND A STANDARD Plugin: XUnleashed V2 Scripts
07/16/05 04:11:36 PM Loading Window Schema. . .
07/16/05 04:11:36 PM Attempting to lock onto Client. . .
07/16/05 04:11:37 PM FOUND: Direct3D8::CreateDevice()
07/16/05 04:11:38 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Keyboard
07/16/05 04:11:38 PM Ignoring DirectInput8 Device: Keyboard
07/16/05 04:11:38 PM Monitoring DirectInput8 Device: Mouse
07/16/05 04:11:38 PM Attempting to free up all allocated memory.
07/16/05 04:11:38 PM Stopping Plugins. . .


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Posted: July 19th, 2005, 3:56 pm
 
homerj10
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I dont wanna be !@#$%^&* or annoying but anclue when this will be fixed ?????


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Posted: July 20th, 2005, 1:34 pm
 
homerj10
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So its been ten days since i posted problem and have yet to recieve a response about the problem or the eta. Could I get a response? Do i need to ask for a refund? I luv the product but no sense paying for something that doesnt work.


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